When the roofer says he's done and the City says no.

A long long time ago in a post far far away, (it was back in early Feb 08) we wrote that we had hired a roofer, BenchMark. Since then we've had our problems with them, mainly that they came and started work on the boxgutters, only to leave them unfinished for two months, which let water and snow our into the house, all the way through the attic, down to the first floor.

At one point we has a 1" ice skating arena on the second floor. That's when the 'water feature' was built to shunt the rainwater out of the second floor window. So that at least stopped the damage from continuing.

Then one sunny day, in late April, they came to not only finish the boxgutters, but to remove the old metal roof and install a new one. It was a one day job that took three. Like I cared that it took 3x as long, I had already waited ten weeks, I could wait another two days. I was finally getting a roof and was thrilled about it.

But by the end of the third day, we still didn't have a downspout at the front of the house. The Duke Energy folks came by the previous week and took it down because we called and said it was too close to the power lines coming into the house. Instead of moving the lines, they took the easy way out and took down our downspout. It was promptly stolen as scrap.

The contract with Benchmark said, in relation to the boxgutters:

"Re-construct sections of gutter on rear of main section of roof and shed roof. Includes removal of remaining gutter, wood framing new gutter, and lining gutter with metal and/or rubber as needed. Install new round downspouts and tie into existing drain locations. Paint wood on all new gutters in customer's choice of color. New gutter will be similar in fashion to existing gutter,but may not match exactly."Price: $1,800.00 - One Thousand Eight Hundred"Install new round downspoutS and tie into existing drain locationS." Plural. Does ANYONE believe that they weren't supposed to install a downspout at the front of the house as well as at the back? To this day, they are still insisting that it was not in the contract, and they are not responsible for a front downspout. They DID come and install one though, even through they say they didn't have to. So we now have a downspout, but it leaks from the first bend near the boxgutter, much like it did before when it wasn't there. Of course now it's dripping on the paint and eventually will wear it away and cause damage if it's not repaired. In the larger picture, you can actually see the water dripping off of the downspout bend.

Benchmark claims they didn't need to install it and so they apparently don't care if the downspout leaks. Oh, yeah, and it's not round, it's that rectangular waffled tin.

Oh yeah, and they installed the rear downspout into a clogged storm drain, which then flooded our basement with rain water, to which Bert the Plumber, red cape and all, came to the rescue.
I love Bert. Don't tell my husband, ok?

Then there was the Box gutter or wading pool matter where the brand new boxgutter was clogged right after the boxgutter was finished and the down spout connector had to be cut out and we bought a new strainer that actually did work.

And then there's the flashing. "Factory drip edge"? No, not quite. Looks like a professional job, no? Well the City of Covington Housing Department doesn't think their work is done, and according to the contact Benchmark signed with the City the City isn't releasing funds until they give their approval of Benchmark's work.
Well, Benchmark agreed that they didn't install the factory drip edge and graciously deducted $144 from the invoice.

Anyone think I can get someone to fix all this stuff for $144?

So here's where we stand now: We have a new roof that (so far) doesn't leak, and looks good. The front downspout leaks, the flashing and the trim look like hell, and we even have a new nest of baby birds living under the roofline where the flashing isn't attached to the roof. And the boxgutters are severely warped (mainly because they used 1/4" plywood on the undersides of the boxgutters that sat out exposed to the rain and snow for 2 months.

When we called the boxgutter subcontractor that works for Benchmark to see how we could get the warped boards replaced, (btw, he's understandably upset that he hasn't been paid for his work... by Benchmark) well, he decided to threaten to 'rip his work off of our house' if he's not paid. Niiiiice.

Benchmark has claimed that their work is finished and they are demanding payment in full (minus the $144). They have even threatened to put a lien on our home.

Considering that we've found a local contractor who has agreed to fix the entire mess for $460, you'd think that Benchmark would be willing so subtract that amount from the invoice, and send us a bill for the remainder (we already paid them $2000) in the amount of $3690, and let the City of Covington pass judgment on someone else's work instead.

Well, that's what we told Benchmark, and considering I don't think I want a roofing contractor I can't trust not to destroy his work (instead of repair it) working on my house, I hope they decide to take the easy way out and send us an amended invoice.

It's been a learning experience, folks, and I hope you've learned as much as we have about Benchmark Roofing.

Class dismissed.

Box gutter or wading pool? -- You Decide.

This is the view from our third floor facing North. You can Cincinnati in the background through the wispy clouds and rain. It's a great view at night when the visibility is better.

By the way, the house at the end of the alley behind us with the red tin roof has been for sale for a while now. It's a great looking place but as far as I'm concerned, needs new electric (still has knob and tube setup.) I think they're asking $189K.
If you're interested, you may want to check it out.

Anyway, what you CAN see a lot clearer from this vantage point is our brand new boxgutter, the one that was leaking for so long that we had to have the 'water feature' underneath because it was pouring water into the house when Benchmark Roofing came and started the box gutter, but didn't get back to finish it for a few weeks.

Here it is in all of its glory, still unpainted, and hey-- wait--- Isn't a box gutter supposed to move the water into the downspout and out to the storm drain?

Sure, that's what they're SUPPOSED to do, but what the heck is happening here?

Oh, yeah, it's flooding and pouring over the side.

Again, while working on the wetwall for the upstairs bath/laundry room, we thought we MUST be hearing the next door neighbor's gutter. It couldn't possibly be the gutter or the downspout. No way.

Way.

My guess is that something the roofers left on the roof... a glove, a bottle, a cup, SOMETHING is clogging the downspout. There is no water going through it, just over the side. We just spent a bundle unclogging and replacing the cast iron pipe at the foot of the downspout, so we know it's not that, and it's not like there are any leaves on the trees...

Damn damn damn. When we will ever get (and keep) the water out of the house??? I'm wet, I'm dusty, and I need a shower. And I'm very disappointed right now.

False Alarm... back to blogging.

OK, we called the lumberyard to ask for an ETA and apparently the truck doesn't have our load of lumber on it, so we're back.

And now, to the roofing.
Well, they're not done yet.
And it's raining.

I got to give it to the laborers, they knew they weren't done and so they rigged up a clever temporary fix until they get back, which is right where the top boxgutter from the gable roof meets the valley at the shed roof. As you can see, they've taken a bit of the metal and laid it over the top of the junction so that the water drains down to the shed roof into the lower box gutter. I just hope we don't have any wind...

Here's the boys hard at work on a beautiful 55 degree day- the first dry one in a few weeks.

[By the way the house directly to the right of ours is for sale by the city. Owner-occupied rehabbers come take a look! Heck, make an offer on the one to the left of us, too. Currently it's being rented out as three different apartments and is in desperate need of a single family owner.]

Back to the roof: the flashing. I would've asked the laborers if they were planning on a little more work on the flashing, but my Spanish isn't so good anymore.

This is the East side of the house, looking up at the roof. Maybe it's just me, but I'm not so happy with the way this looks. I have to assume they're just not finished on that part, either. I would have thought that the underside would have gone down first, but I'm not a roofer.

The West side also needs some finishing work, too. The flashing so far is buckling up towards the back, and the picture at the bottom of this post shows some mighty big gaps from the inside of the 3rd floor.

I was tempted to take down the plastic we have hung up through the second floor, the 'water feature' as the hubby calls it, but he said no- wait until they're finished, so up it stays.

I can't wait to have a finished roof. Everything we've been putting off depends on it.

A look at the roof, boxgutter, and floor joists.

Well, the roof work has begun and last Saturday the fellas from Benchmark started working on the box gutters. Woot!

Much of the framing that the gutters sit on was just total rot, so the first thing was to firm up the supports.

The guys made quick work of replacing the bad wood and set up these new frames, seen from the inside of the third floor at the roofline.

I gotta say, they worked all day and into the night when they couldn't work any longer due to darkness taking over.

So far so good. There are actually 2 gutters that need repaired, one on the East side of the house, which is shown below (nice work on the molding, guys!) and the second is perpendicular to this one, and just above the left side of this box gutter where the two angled rooflines meet in the center of the house. That one's still a work in progress... (but what isn't?)


At this point I want to point out that the box gutter on the front of the house is still in decent shape, but we did have one little problem: The electric lines coming into the house from the street were intertwined with the downspout at the front of the house. Matt Maynard (of Benchmark Roofing) pointed out that this could possibly be a danger to him and his crew, justifiably so!

So off we went to put a call in to Duke Energy to resolve the problem. After a quick conversation we were assured that they would send someone out to inspect the lines. Well, I gotta give them credit, they were quick about it.

They came and took down the downspout while we were out.

I think we'll be calling Duke back.
_________________

OK, now on to the floors:
_________________

On the first floor, in the Northeast corner of the house (red arrow in above image), we have a pretty bad rot problem due to a defunct (aka rusted through) vent stack between the first and second floor.

In case I'm not being clear here: Hole in roof --> cast iron vent pipe--> hole in pipe dumping water into the wall and onto the second floor joist, down to the first floor joist, maybe for years now.

After pulling up the floor boards on the first floor where the rot started (trying to preserve as much as I could fo the good sections for use in the repairs we'll be doing in the front 2 rooms) I discovered this:

The top center of this image (Northeast corner of the house) is where the vent stack was dumping water into the house. You can see that the far left joist is gone and some previous repairs were attempted to shore up that corner, but they forgot to fix the problem (the stack pouring water into the house) so it's all still a mess.

But here's the killer.... the floor joists themselves.

Let me start with the history of the house. The east side of this room (about 6'x15') was once an outdoor area with basement access from the outside. (see image below) You can see the framing for the door in the floor in the Northeast corner of the room. Since this was once an outdoor area, the floor joists are pretty stable where they once stood under the exterior wall, about 6 feet in from the current East wall.

To support the floor when the original owners decided to expand the back room and encompass the basement access, (expanding the room by 6'x15') they sistered some beams to the existing joists and supported them on the existing foundation.

But then, someone decided to dig.

They dug out a lot of the dirt and half of the wall that was once supporting the exterior wall. They put in some lovely duct work that now is total cr@p.

So now we have this:

Yes, these joists (a solid 3"x10" beams) are only connected by three nails each and overlapping by only 4 inches with no support whatsoever underneath.

The scary thing is, they're REALLY stable.

We'll be shoring these up with a 2x6 crosswise underneath where the joists are joined together and support them with a metal post underneath.

The we'll be placing 2 layers of .5" OSB on top for the flooring.... as soon as we have a roof that doesn't dump water back into the house. :-)

We have a roofer.... whew!

I tell you, it's been hell finding a roofer who will work with this specified metal--AND who will return your phone calls.

We currently have a metal roof which has seen the last of its days... all 150 years of them. Not bad for a roof lifetime, eh? Also a darn good reason to put another one on, especially now that we've found good and cheap ($160/sq) metal roofing through Modern Builders. They have American Building Components Residential Metal Roofing 26 gauge SL-16 AND it is approved by the City of Covington (CVG) Historic Preservation Officer(s).

We're picking the light stone color, which also got the thumbs up from CVG, as it's pretty close to what we have currently.











We've just been waiting for someone to return a call.

We've contacted more than 20 roofers, some of them just don't do metal roofs, and that's fine. Some of them say they'll get back with you, and then they never do. We've talked to a Lot of them. Maybe it's that it's mid-winter, I don't know. It's a relatively mild winter this year. (Good for us, btw). I'm thinking they just don't want the cash. Oh well.

So here's the deal.... if you are using HUD money to do a rehab in CVG, your contractors MUST be licensed in CVG (not just the state) and be insured, and whatever other hoops CVG wants. I think that cut a lot of roofers out of the loop right away, and I understand that.

But the two that rose to the top were WrightSide Roofing and Benchmark Roofing. They both are licensed and insured, both do metal roofs, and seem like professional operations. Nice guys, too and know what they're doing. If you're looking for a metal roof, I'd give them both a call if you're in the NKY or Southern Ohio area.

We decided to go with Matt Maynard of Benchmark Roofing.
Here's basically what we were quoted:

"Remove all existing metal roofing panels from entire house. Renail all decking. Inspect decking, and if necessary replace any deficient decking at an additional charge of 25.00 per sheet if plywood, and 2.70 per linear ft if 1" pine decking. Install ice guard at gutterlines. Install #30 felt underlayment over remaining exposure. Install new 16" wide, 26GA, prefinished metal roof panels in customer's choice of color. Install factory drip edge and eave closure trim. Install sidewall flashing along rear knee wall and sides of front chimney. Install new apron flashing on front of front chimney. Install new counter flashing into rear wall and chimney flashing(grind/tuck lip in mortar joints in bricks, and seal). Install factory ridge cap metal. Install new valley metal as needed on rear. Install a new soil pipe flashing. Clean up and haul away all job related debris. *Contract includes minor wood replacement on rear shed roof (up to 3 sheets of plywood or 30 ft of 1X) 15 Year Warranty on all workmanship."Price: $4350.00The box gutters will be an additional $1800.

The other thing the City of CVG wants your contractors to do is to sign a six page contract outlining the scope of the work, the bid, payments, a statement of liability insurance, saying they won't eat the lead paint chips, and won't break the law. You have to have that signed if you want Rehab funds from CVG. It's a good thing to look over, even if you're not working with the City. It's a decent back-up contract. Take a look for yourself here. (Adobe PDF Reader Required.)

Anyway, we're making progress, which is what this thing is all about.